Can I schedule my college move in advance for move-in or move-out day in SoHo?

Yes! You can schedule your Lugg up to 60 days ahead to lock in your preferred time, especially helpful during busy move-in or move-out weekends in SoHo. Early booking ensures your movers and truck are ready when campus access windows open. We can also arrive during your assigned campus move-in slot or residence hall check-in time, which many schools require for freshmen and returning students.

Does Lugg provide same-day & next-day college move in SoHo?

Yes, Lugg provides on-demand, same-day, and next-day college moves. You can book movers and a truck within the hour, or schedule up to 60 days in advance for a time that works best for you. Same-day moves are great for students who don't have a car on campus or need last-minute help with furniture, dorm supplies, or store pickups.

Which colleges and universities does Lugg serve?

Lugg serves students at all major colleges, universities, and campus housing communities in the area. We frequently help with moves into dorms, residence halls, student apartments, and off-campus housing at institutions across the greater SoHo region. If your school allows move-in access for outside movers, Lugg can help you get settled quickly, whether you're moving into a dorm, Greek housing, or campus-affiliated apartments.

How will Lugg handle restricted parking or campus permits in SoHo?

You'll need to secure any required parking permits or passes for your college move in SoHo if your campus requires them. Many campuses have designated move-in zones or loading areas, so check with your housing or parking office before move day to avoid delays. If your school uses security checkpoints, gated entries, or ID-verified access, your Luggers can check in with campus staff as needed.

Can Lugg pick up items I ordered from a store and deliver them straight to my college in SoHo?

Yes! Lugg can pick up your order from retailers like Target, IKEA, Walmart, or any other local store and deliver it to your college or apartment in SoHo. Perfect for new dorm setups or replacing furniture mid-semester. This is especially helpful if you don't have a car on campus. We frequently deliver mini-fridges, futons, shelving units, desks, TVs, and other bulky dorm essentials. We can even make multiple pickups in one trip if your purchases/orders are at different stores.

Can my parents book a Lugg for me even if they aren't in town?

Yes! Parents, guardians, or friends can book your college move remotely, as long as someone in SoHo is available to meet the crew. Ask them to add you as an additional contact so you can track your Lugg and chat with the Luggers in real time. Parents can also follow the move from their own devices, which is especially helpful for first-year students or families coordinating long-distance travel.

My parents and friends want to help me move my things to my college to save time. Is that okay?

Of course, you or a family member can assist with loading and unloading if preferred. Many students in SoHo do this to save on labor time and get everything set up faster, especially during busy campus move-in weekends. This is also helpful in older dorm buildings where elevators are slow, hallways are tight, or multiple flights of stairs are involved, all of which Lugg handles.

Can Lugg help arrange furniture in my dorm or apartment?

Yes. Luggers can help move beds, desks, and dressers within your dorm room or apartment in SoHo, perfect for rearranging furniture, swapping roommates, or setting up after redecorating. Lugg crews can also help with light assembly or disassembly of items like desks, bed frames, or bookshelves, and can reposition TVs or mini-fridges as needed.

Can Lugg help with moves over semester breaks or during summer into storage?

Yes! Lugg can move your belongings into a storage unit during summer or winter breaks and bring them back to your college when the new semester starts in SoHo. Lugg can also pick up from storage and deliver directly to your dorm or apartment on the same day. If you're clearing out old items, we can make donation drop-offs at Goodwill or other local charities. You can even schedule both moves in advance to make returning to campus stress-free.

What do I need to do to prepare for my college move?

Please have all loose items packed in boxes before our crew arrives. Be sure to unplug electronics, empty/defrost mini-fridges, secure drawers, bundle cords, and prepare your belongings for tight stairwells or small elevators common in older dorm buildings. Follow your campus housing guidelines for prohibited items, and pack electronics or TVs with extra padding when possible. Having everything ready helps your movers load quickly, especially helpful during busy move-in days in SoHo.

Do I need to pack my items before my college move?

Yes. Lugg does not provide packing services or supplies, so please box or bag any small, loose, or fragile items before your crew arrives. This includes things like kitchenware, electronics accessories, office supplies, dorm essentials, and any items that could shift during transport. Your Luggers will bring moving supplies and equipment to protect furniture and larger pieces, but having your items packed ahead of time helps keep your move quick, organized, and damage-free.

Can Lugg move me between different dorms or apartments on campus?

Yes! Lugg frequently helps students move between dorms, apartments, and student housing in SoHo. Just enter your pickup and destination addresses, even if they're across campus, and we'll handle the rest. We can bring items directly into your dorm room or apartment, and we also support multi-stop moves such as going from dorm to storage to new dorm or off-campus housing in student neighborhoods.

Does Lugg offer student discounts?

From time to time, yes! Lugg runs local promotions, student discounts, and social media giveaways in SoHo. Follow us on social media or subscribe to our email list so you never miss a giveaway or limited-time promo. Seasonal offers are most common during back-to-school, winter break, and summer move-out periods. Tip: If your friend is new to Lugg, be sure to use our [referral program](https://lugg.com/blog/lugg-referral-program-how-to-earn-free-moves-give-10-get-10); they get $10 off their first Lugg, and you earn $10 in Lugg credit!

Can I share a Lugg college move with my roommate to save money in SoHo?

Yes! Lugg supports up to five pickups or drop-offs per booking, so you and your roommate can combine moves to save time and make things easier. For example, we can pick up from both of your homes or storage units and deliver everything to your shared dorm, apartment, or college housing in SoHo in one trip. This makes it a cost-effective option compared to booking separately, especially when moving from multiple locations. Please note that only one payment can only be processed per booking, the cost can't be split between multiple cards or people.

What equipment will Luggers bring for my college move?

Every Lugg college move in SoHo includes professional moving equipment, straps, dollies, moving blankets, and stretch wrap to protect your items and your space, plus a basic toolkit for light disassembly or reassembly. Pickup trucks also come equipped with a tarp for weather protection. Your Luggers will wrap fragile or bulky pieces for safe transport and are trained to move heavy furniture, appliances, and other large items safely through tight spaces, stairs, and doorways. This equipment helps your Luggers navigate stairs, elevators, and narrow dorm hallways, protect your items in rainy weather, and safely move heavy dorm essentials like mini-fridges, futons, desks, and shelving. Your items and college dorm or housing are protected under Lugg's [Damage Protection Guarantee](https://lugg.com/help/general/damage-protection-guarantee). We do not provide moving boxes or mattress covers. Please have these items ready if needed.

Can Lugg help with donation drop-offs or junk removal during my college move-out?

Yes! Lugg can take unwanted items to local donation centers such as Goodwill, Savers, or other charities in SoHo during move-out. We can also help remove small pieces of furniture, old dorm items, or boxes you no longer need and bring those to a local disposal or recycling center if preferred. This is perfect for end-of-semester clean-outs or when you need your room cleared before RA inspections.

Can Lugg help with longer-distance college moves?

Yes. Lugg can help with longer-distance student moves from nearby cities or suburbs into your campus housing. We typically support moves up to 150 miles from the pickup location (in some regions this limit may vary, with certain markets capped around 90 miles). Whether you're coming from home, another campus, or a surrounding suburb, Lugg can transport your belongings directly to your dorm, apartment, or student housing. Simply enter your pickup and drop-off locations when booking to check availability.

What happens if an item gets damaged during my college move?

We always recommend inspecting your items upon arrival in your new space. In the rare event that damage occurs to your item(s) or your property in SoHo, our Support Team will promptly review the issue, coordinate any necessary repairs or replacements, and work with you to make things right. To file a damage claim, please contact [support@lugg.com](mailto:support@lugg.com). We'll guide you through the next steps and may ask you to hold the item while we review and resolve the issue as quickly as possible. For more details, see our Help Center article: [What if my items or location get damaged?](https://lugg.com/help/after/what-if-my-items-or-location-get-damaged)

College and dorm movers in SoHo, NY

A dorm move is usually a futon, a mini fridge and a stack of boxes, with no truck of your own to move them in. Lugg movers pick it all up, drive it across town in SoHo, NY, and carry it into the room. Book it yourself in about a minute. Enter both addresses to see your upfront estimate.

4.9/5

71.7K Reviews

4.9/5

45K Ratings

4.6/5

1.3K Reviews

4.8/5

4.4K Reviews

4.9/5

3.9K Reviews

BBB

Accredited

Moving in or out? Book dorm and college movers

College moves on your schedule

Book on-demand movers that arrive today, in under 60 minutes. Schedule up to 60 days out for the time that works best for you.

Select day

Track your college movers in real time

Get live tracking and ETA updates.
Schedule up to 5 stops for pickup and dropoff along the way.

En-route to stop 4

Truck & muscle with every college move

Choose a vehicle for any size job. Your movers arrive with dollies, moving blankets, straps, wraps, and more, all at no extra charge.

Lugg Lite

Lugg Pickup

Lugg Van

Lugg XL

Lugg Box

Lugg Box+

Your move is fully backed by our Damage Protection Guarantee

Our industry-leading 99.4% damage-free rate means your items and move is safe with us.

Top-rated movers nationwide

Our professional 5-star movers, are background checked, and ready to help.

Fast ⚡️

Reliable 💪

Friendly 😁

Efficient ⏱

Victor & Eugene

Helpful 🤝

HEGJ

SoHo, NY loves Lugg
for on-demand moves

With an average 4.9-star rating across 68,730+ verified customer reviews, Lugg is the trusted choice for on-demand college moves in SoHo, NY.

See all reviews

New York, NY

They were incredibly helpful with helping me move my stuff from my storage unit to my dorm would definitely recommend!!! - Ilana

Total Price$240

New York, NY

Wagner was not just on time, he was early! He was friendly and moved everything very quickly from my daughter’s dorm to her new apartment. Highly recommend Lugg for dorm and small apartment moves. This is my second time using them and another great experience 😊 - Gretchen

Total Price$79

New York, NY

I had David and Michael for moving out my college dorm. They were super efficient, shower up on time, and very courteous and professional. There was difficulty finding parking around my campus but David and Michael handled it like a pro! - Ellie

Total Price$116

New York, NY

They were efficient and really easy considering the mess that is dorm move-in in Manhattan. They were smart, too. - Melissa

Total Price$104

Bedford-Stuyvesant, NY

They were great, so nice and efficient and considerate about making sure not to get the mattress dirty or to knock anything over, great movers 10 out of 10. - Mandy

Total Price$186

Crown Heights, NY

Darrell was incredibly nice and kind, and knew exactly what he was doing, and made moving a big mattress easy and also super quick! A million percent recommend—1000/10 experience. Thanks, Darrell! - Caroline

Total Price$72

New York, NY

Great experience great guys! Very helpful to be willing to pack up the mattress in the protector, good communication, speedy - Lauren

Total Price$126

Greenpoint, NY

Aston and Edward were prompt, super friendly and carried my mattress to my 4th floor apartment. They were amazing!!!!! - Dana

Total Price$73

New York, NY

So awesome that they arrived before the time estimated and also had a mattress moving bag for my queen mattress. Thank you so much!!! - Vivienne

Total Price$132

Hicksville, NY

Hector and Terelle moved our mattress in and up the stairs quickly and quietly. They were nice guys, and even carried our old mattress out. - Zoe

Total Price$195

Hicksville, NY

Darrell and Piero were fantatic. They waited hours outside at Mattress Firm warehouse and then drove over 2 hours to deliver the beds to us. When they arrived they were smiling and friendly and super efficient putting things into place. I give them the highest rating for their professionalism and friendliness. Darrell was particularly kind. I appreciated them both so much. Well done job. - Denyce

Total Price$371

New York, NY

Excellent movers. Very professional and extremely efficient. Made moving furniture (bed frame, mattress, tables x2 chair) very easy. Would recommend!! - Evelyn

Total Price$121

New York, NY

They were incredibly helpful with helping me move my stuff from my storage unit to my dorm would definitely recommend!!! - Ilana

Total Price$240

New York, NY

Total Price$79

New York, NY

Total Price$116

New York, NY

They were efficient and really easy considering the mess that is dorm move-in in Manhattan. They were smart, too. - Melissa

Total Price$104

Bedford-Stuyvesant, NY

They were great, so nice and efficient and considerate about making sure not to get the mattress dirty or to knock anything over, great movers 10 out of 10. - Mandy

Total Price$186

Crown Heights, NY

Total Price$72

New York, NY

Great experience great guys! Very helpful to be willing to pack up the mattress in the protector, good communication, speedy - Lauren

Total Price$126

Greenpoint, NY

Aston and Edward were prompt, super friendly and carried my mattress to my 4th floor apartment. They were amazing!!!!! - Dana

Total Price$73

New York, NY

So awesome that they arrived before the time estimated and also had a mattress moving bag for my queen mattress. Thank you so much!!! - Vivienne

Total Price$132

Hicksville, NY

Hector and Terelle moved our mattress in and up the stairs quickly and quietly. They were nice guys, and even carried our old mattress out. - Zoe

Total Price$195

Hicksville, NY

Total Price$371

New York, NY

Excellent movers. Very professional and extremely efficient. Made moving furniture (bed frame, mattress, tables x2 chair) very easy. Would recommend!! - Evelyn

Total Price$121

New York, NY

Prompt and efficient, also brought along cover/protection for the mattress which made everything simple and easy for me. Couldn’t ask for better - Emily

Total Price$210

Brooklyn Heights, NY

Dmetry and Terrence were great! They were so fast, efficient, and careful. They made sure everything was in a safe space before leaving. And they carried that mattress all the way up to the fourth floor, last apartment which is no easy feat. I really appreciate them and the work they did. Thank you! - Lauren

Total Price$155

Weehawken, NJ

He helped me move my queen mattress to the store for my return and got it done. I think he was a little slow (26 mins) to drop off the item. I had told him to drop it off at the parking lot or sidewalk. - Ramchandra

Total Price$75

Hicksville, NY

Brandon was awesome. Super helpful and helped me bring my mattress and frame up to the 16th floor. 10/10 customer service - Andrew

Total Price$101

New York, NY

Robert was fantastic. Only a one-person Lugg was available tonight so it was either that or miss out on getting the mattress I wanted and sleep on my yoga mat (again). Robert was a trooper about lugging it up four flights of stairs—I helped but he really did the heavy lifting, with zero attitude. Thank you, Robert. Moving is stressful enough and you made one small part of my night easier. - Veda

Total Price$82

Hicksville, NY

Mike and Sadiki were amazing! When the mattress couldn’t fit in the small stairway and they patiently took it out of the box and managed to haul it into my apt! Then Mike helped me discard my old mattress which I’m super grateful for! Thank you!! - Suzanne

Total Price$178

Shrewsbury, NJ

Vincent and Yorman were excellent they arrived on time and worked extremely quick and efficiently to get the move and set up of the mattress and adjustable base completed. There were knowledgeable of the task and worked neatly. - Donna

Total Price$138

Flatbush, NY

I was blown away with these 2 gentleman! I ordered a mattress from Craig’s Mattresses and he told me about Lugg. I’m in NY moving my son from Brooklyn to the East Village. I scheduled a pick up and within an hour they were at my son’s apt picking up all his stuff and delivered it to his new apartment in Manhattan! Incredible service! They were kind and professional! I’m definitely going to spread the word about this service. Thank you! - efrain

Total Price$211

New York, NY

Matthew and Robert were great!! They helped me move my mattress very quickly and the whole experience was very stress free! - Gaby

Total Price$100

Long Island City, NY

David and Michael were great and efficient. They moved the mattress without any issues and did it quickly. However, I don’t think the labor spent at pick up should have been 24 minutes. The majority of the time was spent by David and Michael trying to find the entrance to the building. The actual labor time was more like 5-7 minutes. As a result, I don’t believe I should be charged the full $27.36 for labor at pick up. - George

Total Price$84

Bedford-Stuyvesant, NY

Made excellent decisions (wrapped mattress and box springs at pick-up to protect against rain), friendly, polite, very clear and strong communicators. - Craig

Total Price$143

Elizabeth, NJ

They were superb, they carried the mattress upstairs 3 floor walk up even though they are not required to do so. - Phil

Total Price$50

New York, NY

Prompt and efficient, also brought along cover/protection for the mattress which made everything simple and easy for me. Couldn’t ask for better - Emily

Total Price$210

Brooklyn Heights, NY

Total Price$155

Weehawken, NJ

Total Price$75

Hicksville, NY

Brandon was awesome. Super helpful and helped me bring my mattress and frame up to the 16th floor. 10/10 customer service - Andrew

Total Price$101

New York, NY

Total Price$82

Hicksville, NY

Total Price$178

Shrewsbury, NJ

Total Price$138

Flatbush, NY

Total Price$211

New York, NY

Matthew and Robert were great!! They helped me move my mattress very quickly and the whole experience was very stress free! - Gaby

Total Price$100

Long Island City, NY

Total Price$84

Bedford-Stuyvesant, NY

Made excellent decisions (wrapped mattress and box springs at pick-up to protect against rain), friendly, polite, very clear and strong communicators. - Craig

Total Price$143

Elizabeth, NJ

They were superb, they carried the mattress upstairs 3 floor walk up even though they are not required to do so. - Phil

Total Price$50

Lugg pricing in SoHo, NY

	Crew	Base Fare	Per-Mile Rate	Per-Minute Labor	Average cost*
Lite	1 Lugger	$31	$2.35	$1.14	$60
Pickup	2 Luggers	$46	$2.68	$1.94	$88
Van	2 Luggers	$82	$3.69	$2.42	$136
XL	2 Luggers	$140	$4.44	$2.76	$204
Box	2 Luggers	$182	$6.00	$3.60	$266
Box+	2 Luggers	$234	$6.90	$4.20	$332

Lite

1 Lugger

Base fare$31

Per-mile rate$2.35

Per-min labor$1.14

Average cost$60

Pickup

2 Luggers

Base fare$46

Per-mile rate$2.68

Per-min labor$1.94

Average cost$88

Van

2 Luggers

Base fare$82

Per-mile rate$3.69

Per-min labor$2.42

Average cost$136

XL

2 Luggers

Base fare$140

Per-mile rate$4.44

Per-min labor$2.76

Average cost$204

Box

2 Luggers

Base fare$182

Per-mile rate$6.00

Per-min labor$3.60

Average cost$266

Box+

2 Luggers

Base fare$234

Per-mile rate$6.90

Per-min labor$4.20

Average cost$332

* Estimate for 5 miles of driving and 15 minutes of labor. Pricing rates vary by city. Each booking also includes a small variable booking fee to support Lugg's operational and safety costs. You'll always see an upfront estimated price before you book.

Real customer prices

See what Lugg customers paid for similar college moves.

Sandra

Moved dorm rooms in Chicago, IL

Lite1 Lugger LITE illustration

Base fare$26.00

Mileage(0.6 mi @ $1.97/mi)$1.18

Labor(12 min @ $0.95/min)$11.36

Booking fee$2.46

Total price$41.00

Most customers pay$51–$74

Richard

Moved dorm furniture from Menlo Park to Stanford, CA

Van2 Luggers VAN illustration

Base fare$68.00

Mileage(2.9 mi @ $3.08/mi)$8.93

Labor(29 min @ $2.01/min)$58.43

Booking fee$8.64

Total price$144.00

Most customers pay$138–$178

Rachel

Moved dorm room contents to storage in New York, NY

Van2 Luggers VAN illustration

Base fare$81.60

Mileage(0.8 mi @ $3.69/mi)$2.95

Labor(76 min @ $2.43/min)$184.43

Booking fee$17.17

Total price$286.15

Most customers pay$229–$321

Based on actual Lugg jobs. Names changed for privacy. Rates vary slightly by city.

Help from real people

Dedicated support

A real support team with you at every step. With 24/7 Live Chat, help is just a message away, delivering quick answers to keep things moving.

Visit the Lugg help center

Safe and reliable

Trusted movers

Highly rated, vetted moving professionals you can trust. Reliable, respectful teams who show up ready to work, handling your items with care and getting the job done right.

How Lugg vets its movers

Victor

Mover

Lugger rating

4.9

Qualifications

3/3

Background check

No criminal background, valid drivers license & more

Strong & Physically Able

Lift over 100lbs, moving knowledge, customer experience

Truck

Newer than 2001, insured, great shape, clean cargo

Eugene

Driver

Lugger rating

4.9

Qualifications

3/3

Background check

No criminal background, valid drivers license & more

Strong & Physically Able

Lift over 100lbs, moving knowledge, customer experience

Truck

Newer than 2001, insured, great shape, clean cargo

Items we move

Dormroom furniture

Beds, desks, shelves, chairs, and other small dorm furniture

Small appliances

Mini fridges, microwaves, toasters, air fryers, and other small appliances

Electronics

TVs, computers, sound systems, and other electronics

Clothing & bedding

Clothing, sheets, blankets, pillows, and comforters

Bikes

Road bikes, mountain bikes, and other bike accessories

Boxes

Books, decor, and other student dorm items

And many more!

We help you move

Your boxes

1 Lugger

Lugg Lite is perfect for moving a stack of boxes, luggage, or lightweight furniture like coffee tables and accent chairs.

Your things

2 Luggers

Lugg Pickup is a versatile choice for moving a few large items like a refrigerator, washer/dryer or a sofa.

Your room

2 Luggers

Lugg Van is the right match for moving several pieces of furniture or fragile items, like art or plants, that require an enclosed vehicle for protection.

Your space

2 Luggers

Lugg XL is great for moving a studio or a small 1-bedroom apartment, and any bulky oversized items including king-sized mattresses.

Your place

2 Luggers

Lugg Box is a high-capacity option for 2+ bedroom homes, home staging projects, and multiple bulky pieces of furniture.

Your home

2 Luggers

Lugg Box+ is our largest option for 3+ bedroom homes, commercial relocations, and any job that needs maximum cargo space.

Universities near SoHo, NY

Lugg helps students move in and out of housing at these schools near SoHo, NY. Tap one to start an instant estimate.

New York University (NYU)
44 W 4th St, New York, NY 100120.4 mi
Book move
The New School
66 W 12th St, New York, NY 100110.8 mi
Book move
Stevens Institute of Technology
1 Castle Point Terrace, Hoboken, NJ 070301.8 mi
Book move
Pratt Institute
200 Willoughby Ave, Brooklyn, NY 112053.1 mi
Book move
Columbia University
550 W 120th St, New York, NY 100276.1 mi
Book move
Rutgers University–Newark
Conklin Hall, 175 University Ave, Newark, NJ 071039.1 mi
Book move
New Jersey Institute of Technology (NJIT)
323 Dr Martin Luther King Jr Blvd, Newark, NJ 071029.3 mi
Book move
St. John's University
Address, 81-98 170th St, Jamaica, NY 1143210.7 mi
Book move

Get an estimate

Enter your addresses to see your prices and schedule your move

2 Lugg movers delivering Christmas gifts to a donation center

2 Lugg movers wrapping a piece of art for delivery

Lugg mover strapping down furniture in pickup truck

Lugg mover protecting furniture with damage protection

Lugg movers wrapping furniture in storage unit

Lugg mover protecting a furniture delivery

Happy Lugg customer watches as her movers disassemble bed frame

2 Lugg movers with another happy customer

Lugg mover delivers Christmas gift to donation center

Dorm and college movers in SoHo

Two weeks in the year do most of the work: the one in August when everyone arrives, and the one in May when everyone leaves at once. In between there are roommate swaps, a move down the hall, a futon bought off a senior, and the run to storage before summer. Lugg is an on-demand moving and delivery service that moves students into dorms, residence halls and off-campus apartments, and back out again at the end of term.

Which Lugg fits a dorm room

Most people booking dorm movers overestimate what a dorm room holds. Across thousands of student moves, 93% fit in a van or a pickup truck. A bed, a desk chair, a futon and eight or nine boxes doesn't need a box truck, and you pick the vehicle yourself when you book rather than having someone size it for you.

Move-in week and move-out week

Move-in runs on the college's clock, not yours: an assigned arrival slot, a loading zone, a lot that's full by nine in the morning. Booking ahead is what keeps that from mattering, and you can lock a Lugg up to 60 days out. Move-out is the opposite problem, because everything has to be gone by a deadline and half of it isn't coming home. One Lugg can make up to five stops, so the storage unit, the donation drop-off and the boxes you're leaving at a friend's place all happen in the same trip. Movers carry it up stairs, into elevators and down long hallways, which is most of what a dorm building is.

Off-campus apartments and student housing

Student movers get booked for more than move-in day. Sophomore year is usually a walk-up with three roommates, a shared lease and a couch somebody's brother is giving away. Lugg handles those the same way, including the pickup from a marketplace seller across town on the way to the new place. Lugg movers can put the bed frame, the desk or the bookshelf back together once it's in the room.

Moving without a car on campus

Most freshmen don't have a car, and the ones who do can't fit a mattress in it, which is most of what dorm room movers get called for. Lugg is the way to get something bulky from a store, a storage unit or a seller to your room without borrowing a truck or asking three friends. You book it yourself in about a minute, track the crew on the way, and see your upfront estimate before anything is confirmed.